Would you give up some Privacy for Safety?

Newell Normand
Tuesday, January 9th

Where does your right to privacy begin?  Are you ok with cameras installed outside of businesses that sell alcohol, monitoring your every move on a public street?  Or do you think public safety far outweighs privacy issues?  City council is expected to pass an ordinance about these cameras this week.  Own a business?  We want you to weigh in.  

00:28:58

Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

Good morning New Orleans another third date closer to sun deck. We're on the count down to the great team that's gonna take place in Minnesota on Sunday. I know everybody is excited the intensity of that excitement is increasing every day and everybody on the streets in New Orleans in the metro area in the state Louisiana talking about saints football. But on you know on another note I gotta tell you last night a watch the national championship game. And absolutely incredible presentation of NCAA football and in particular. SEC football I mean. Could you be prouder as a member of the SEC the game that was played last night. Have to say congrats to Alabama and thanks to Georgia. For several hours of an intense. Gut wrenching football. It you know I don't know what the ratings for a last night's game but. You know I spy watch it from beginning to end couldn't get to bed and it wouldn't leave the TV. Didn't know what was happening. Disks so many stories within a game of freshman. Backup quarterback leading a freshman quarterback on the Georgia side. I mean just absolutely so many stories inside of that game. For just really a great great time and thanks. To the SEC into a Georgia and Alabama and congratulations to the national champs Alabama's mark is images of pains me as an LSU fan to say that which you got to give credit where credit's due. They really had a storied season this year we've got a great show coming up today and in the third hour will be talking about. The most recent political football. Doctor. The dreamers. And what's going on there and whether or not. The Democrats really wanna do any thing or are you or is gonna be more about not giving president trump anything that he wants and anything. To be able to use to toot his horn in the mid term elections and you know whether or not know that and and use them the dreamers that is as political hostages and what's gonna ultimately happened there and we'll have. Matt O'Brien and director of research for fair joining us on that particular issue. In the second hour we're gonna talk about. This the new changes in Mardi Gras. The concerns. Relative to this and some folks are not too happy about it seem to get it and we'll talk to Erin Miller who's a director of homeland security and emergency preparedness for the city of New Orleans. About those changes as we. And the Mardi Gras season and we're always faced with a number of challenges out there in China providing safe and secure environment for people to enjoy. The parade. And in the first hour an issue that is kind of surface to the top as it relates to security cameras and the mandatory provisions. HBO outlets alcohol beverage outlets rushed frauds and others. In a new city ordinance requiring that cameras be installed outside of those businesses to help provide. Security and joining us in the second half of this hour will be Alex fine owner of the court in two sisters and president of French Quarter business league. And joining us now on a line is Bruce Hamilton. Staff attorney for a street for the ACLU Bruce welcome to show. Up. So Bruce this issue his comment been brewing in and there is you know from you guys perspective it's this the friction all ways between the rights of privacy. And government intrusion and what activities they engage in has to. These security cameras in and I guess indexing and keeping. Images of people walking on public streets. That's right it's very much a question they're proportion of their risks to the benefits. The risks to privacy. And these cameras proposed against the the the potential benefits. To public safety or orange in crime prevention. So only think about this just to put it in it in the proper framework legally. Is there are right to privacy while walking on a public street. Well you know that's that's an interesting question because privacy law is. Not as cut and dried as. I think some of the proponents of these cameras would would have you believe. There are. Most people think of privacy as something that. You know you only have an inviolate right to privacy in Europe home but that's not that's not the case. And I think. Supreme Court precedent bears out the fact that we have a zone of privacy that we carry with us. Order for a week ago. And beyond just that's. The federal concept of privacy in Louisiana we have a constitutional right to privacy that is very specifically articulated. And it it says. And this is in the constitution that's its article one section five it says every person shall be secure in his personal property communications houses papers and effects against unreasonable searches seniors. Or invasions of privacy. And you do you have a right to privacy in public. You know one of the one of the hallmarks of privacy laws is the case cats first United States which and he probably. Studied law school and and had to do with government surveillance. You know that was. On the intro Katz was using a public pay dues to transmit illegal gambling wagers. And he didn't realize that the FBI it was recording conversations. Using an eavesdropping device. And the court and that's where we get this formulation of privacy law that says you have to have a subjective. Expectation of privacy. And there has to be an objective component in other words. That has to be something that society has prepared and to prep to recognize as reasonable. But in that case that the court said that this was the search. Eaves dropping on economy and in a public. Paper at least and it was an invasion of privacy. And it's telling to me that this case spill government's surveillance which is really what we're talking about with these cameras. Even when your walkman public street you have the right to be left alone and you have to rate in nine of the government be watching. Well when you say that you have the right to be left alone and in the right have government not watch shoot in what in what respect demean in a government. If if you have an officer did just walking down urban street and he decides to start something about she strikes in his and he did he decides are following you. There's no prohibition and there's no right to privacy against that. That's true and. What you're talking about military style. Fire while another C shorted Terry I mean you know I'm not gonna make a stop I'm just gonna follies. You don't you don't have a right to have me not follow you. Look at what we're talking about one officer. Following you because he thinks you're doing something. That bears investigation. Or maybe not maybe you're walking down the street in your draw in he's afraid that you may be a victim. You know there's a flip side we always look at the overreach you know the side of this when you look getting to these cameras at that one of the issues is is that. Victimization. Is every bit as much. The the reason behind this. Of being able to protect people that walk on a bar is wrong. And being able to put together some. Evidence to try and ultimately capture an individual that takes advantage of that particular individual. You know and acting I started with the threshold the right to privacy issue because while you're out in public walking down urban street. Is is a is next three degrees of separation from being in a phone Booth. And utilizing an instrumentality. That expresses the right to privacy. Sure you know where as walking down the street. Does not there's their cameras all over the place every every place. Right and then well I mean we're not just talk about herb street for talking about the abuse dollar but the city. Roger issues Burton urban streets of street like any of the street it doesn't matter I mean Allen is not a distinction to be made demeanor Rosen the rose by any of the named. But the fact is but the facts and the matter are is that whether I'm trying to understand is. The position of the ACLU to say that there is a right to privacy on a public street by either a private owner. That puts up a camera or war government that will utilize. That camera through registration. You monitor. People as they passed the front of the business or come in and business. Okay well that's. Let's break it down a little bit we started off talking about the the owner of the business verses the government and what we're talking about here is not. I'm gonna give you that the that the owner of the business as a proxy for government. Okay but let's not even argue that issue because we do know that that it's clear that government wants to gain access to that video. Right so there's. Speaking distinctions and and degrees difference. That there's a big difference between an officer who's the a person may be stumbling on the street and decides to follow or investigate. And then network cameras. That would be observing public streets two point Forsett and this is this is not just wanna officers this would be. Effectively in army officers and not just police stopped is by the way. FBI and homeland security and who knows too well. Watching constantly. What does that FBI and Homeland Security that makes it terrible. Oh it's just waiting to question you draw the distinction liked it owed by the way I mean even these that you know horrible people I mean these are all. Well intentioned on law abiding a law enforcing individuals on loans. Okay well what I'm saying is we're. We're sitting at the network that would be open to government surveillance and it's not entirely clear. What's the use would be or group of what forms of government not just law enforcement would have access to this network. And it's not a question. One officer following one person. It's an entire network with a number of allies and the potential for abuse. That weeping via the cameras. Post. Well the potential for abuse. You know it is a separate issue from a right to privacy issue. It is in my view and in lots it did their they're not even intrinsically linked. You know so. That it every every governmental action has a propensity for abuse. There there there are bad people that work for government. Like any other major corporation or any of them small business in America. So I don't understand that that distinction subject to too. To what abuse I mean if the policy and I think the policy in this case says that that they're required to hold the video for two weeks. God has it has a significant limiting factor. In the balance of interest if if we even wanna go there are malicious say that we are trying to balance the interest. A significant limiting factor of the abuse that can be done relative. To that video and it seems to me that the benefits far outweigh. Whatever there the risk would be especially with the new technologies coming on board with facial recognition and in other things just the other night you had a guy the guy kicked out of a barn is 700 block suburban street right behind. Saint Louis cathedral. In each of those gets a gun and he comes back. Some of the newest technologies is at the moment he would hit a camera there it had they captured his his. His picture when he laughed alerted it in the camera system they would have alerted that everybody in the bar that. That he's back and he's got a gun. Well it's not entirely clear to me is that you know this this network of surveillance cameras and Arabia's would've would've prevented that them and by the way I mean. Whether or not surveillance cameras there are effective at preventing crime and very much an open question but they they are susceptible to abuse are susceptible to. Well they may not be effective in preventing the instinct crop. But information is power and a cricket that I can get that information out and prevent the next crime or by arresting them knucklehead. It prevents him from from committing any future crop. Or I mean that's the L that's the ultimate goal in not just I have a difficult time understanding why. Especially with a two week limitation in him in in keeping. And inventory new video why the ACLU would have a strong stance and opposing. Crime cameras. Bruce can you stay with this you gotta get to a break if you or. Ask some questions givers or call 260170. Or Texas and 870 late seventies this is an old Orman and Bruce Hamilton from the ACLU one dumbed IBO we'd be right back. We're back door talking to Bruce Hamilton in house staff attorney for the ACLU relative to these new ordinances requiring foreigners restaurant owners and others say below outlets to provide security cameras. Outside of their businesses in order to capture of the activity. In the comings and goings of individuals coming in and outside of the bars and Bruce wouldn't allow one we got a call from Don in Slidell and pay down what's gone wrong. Yes I. Idea. My own personal situations. All the residents whose. Got a camera pointed trauma I'll stick. And yet spoken about businesses. Can't hospitable. And residential business should be pointed at. Public areas still a lot of Tolkien. A kid's sophomore in the kind of neighbor across the street if you actually. As a Chilean police for the pharma aisles. And now they're done that you Leo actually better than we hit it cracked a little bit and a candidate who lives next door for me. Achieve its report more like still in Poland and the problem on all. Actually that conclusion is it's warming goofy you know shop. Fees. It's in my living room is that legal to do an Olympic City Council prior. Sure it's. Sure they I think it's probably legal for the person to the individual property or to have a camera and appointed you know away from. That individual house. Whether or not invade your privacy depends on what they chambers. Capturing. And it it's possible that it to cameras capturing things inside your house. There may be an invasion of privacy there but it. You know these. I don't I don't think they have the right to set up a video deceit in side of your home. Whether intentional or unintentional when you agree groups. Saddam I think that's the answer to your question areas outside your house you know me in my catch does this sidewalk leading up to your front or. Parti fraught lawn. And all of the exit that's. Particularly issue or did you have a right to privacy. As a relates to that. Bruce thank you so much for joining us we really appreciate. Did your observations I've got to get to a news break we'll be right back after CBS news is Noual Norman when Davida Leo. Where vacuum we're continuing our conversation in relative to these sickness security and safety cameras that are being required outside of radio outlets restaurants and in other. Establishments. Defined as such and join us in this half hours Alex Fong an owner and go according to sisters and president of the French Quarter is mentally ago welcome to the show Alex. So Alex there are a number of people to include the ACLU the independent police monitor and several some councilman and others that are have concerns about. Camera surveillance in and asking. Members of your industry. That you cooperate to participate in this camera program and I'm a little confused as to why. As to why there have concerns about us. Obviously. We were open tickets this possibility when I was urged US arms several months ago. But on the development Ito then and we definitely see. What they're proposing to do with information. We can say that we're okay and summit that he. You don't that are coming out proposed ordinance. You know horrible concerning the arms. And which ones are we talking about. So I mean it's. It is used but can it solve any crime that they have been out of our businesses. Short but there is that footage that motto our business and make sure that we are doing things right. War or anything like that that topic is concerned and then you do anything in Europe is it as well and is concerned so I mean. Wanna wait and see the finished product but its ordinance. And and before we pass judgment but you know we are concerned about what they planned to do list. Forced it. But as a business honored that Dutton is cut both ways swords so for example if you had a navy allow live in one a year bouncers. You know beat the heck out of out of a patron. Unjustifiably. Would you wanna know about that. Actually. That it is and in the backcourt. Ignored it does not hide we a bit darker. Are about orbit that that way it is the right way but there's a desperate situation. Solving eight Jerry crime verses. You know picking your trap it I they respect as Stu or were things like that and you know unfortunately. Sometime that it apartment it department's ability to record. Which certain things and you know we're just concerned they plan to do with the footage that we would be about so. Obviously if it's evident try to ordinance that will be OK with it but it's the without which looks like what they plan. Yeah you know I was I was a little kind of taken aback when the independent police monitor. Started talking about prohibit man magnification. Of an individual's face with a reasonable suspicion a threat to public safety and monitor compliance. I don't I don't get that it it's not a constitutional requirement that by any stretch of the imagination. Prohibit aiming a camera that an individual or group's activity. Without reasonable suspicion a threat to public safety and monitor compliance. So it's almost like they don't want anybody to take a preemptive. Approach. To you know kind of zooming in on an activity. In in case some than actually breaks out based on historically knowing how these things happen and Alice I know you've been down and a quarter for a long time. When you get a group of folks that get together and and McConnell looks like some there's some friction there. That's not reasonable suspicion. And and nail I'm uttered suggesting that you're not able to zoom in on this type of activity looked to look at and I mean it's like. We want to cameras but we want to handcuff you so much of it not going to be of any value tree to to anybody down there. But by the end of the day. I establish. An addict when we approach where the notion. Hopping. Putting up camera which obligates the app already. I'm with access to essential feed you know we that it idea because I think that happened that it be nice if the police. We're able to be more proactive and and and getting information install that means quicker turn bad things from happening in the future but obviously it. That could be crossed that we get comfortable with its art what is expected of for a what do you each or in order to install whatever they want so all. And until we know what that line than what they planned to do it it's opera would be complete support. Doing what they ask that obviously if they're gonna just use it to solve. You know violent crimes. Or any sort of serious crimes and that we can help we wanna beat up but you know. There's been a lot that we would probably not be comparable crossing. I would imagine depending what the. So basically when it comes to any regulatory issues as to the businesses you don't want your own technology to be used against. The the business owner if they are in fact violating law. I mean obviously nobody is just perfect. Situations. Where people. And you know there's been a bit. Costly mistakes Juan and chew it and used against idiot especially. I'm typically when something goes wrong in in the backcourt speak to. There this time administration and that in the that it isn't that where the problem and they can always watch compound and cracked down on us. When the core problem is. I like crime and that in in the quarters editor for the for the last seventy years so. Using our own camera footage of Iraq to help them in a regulatory. But what they do obviously it is on the right way but no extra bit in Ottawa. Tonight from some. A camera and your where you actually I don't see anywhere you add all that mean that they need it then. Seventeenth they're out to visit that I. In the packet that I get the over handed approach that has to be a balance. Understand that. Totally but you know I was also kind of mystified by the music and culture coalition war Owens race and concerns when the plan was unveiled backed. When it was in Vail early January in a statement that month the group says that this is largely of blue print on constitutional. Surveillance and cultural com modification. It seems portly conceive reactionaries intentionally ambiguous. And basically what they're complaining about it is is that you know that they're going to be under under constant. View hopes of someone you know with the practices are. You know a lot of these did the well intentioned folks that are out there are doing at the right way no problem it's all the others that are out their deal and it. And then when the police turn their backs there's start panhandling. And and and and they start approaching votes and now we've got these groups representing all of these that it completely disrupting. And ruining. The experience. In that area and you know at the risk of getting caught so they can go fight cameras you know I mean at the I agree with the at the end of the day it has to via a balance can you stay with mr. bright. Got to get to a break we have Alex fine as the president of French Quarter business league gives called 260187. Your taxes at 8787. If you have any questions on this subject matter will be right back. We're back and we're talking to Alex known recorded two sisters and president of French Quarter business league in. Alex I'll give you the last word is to you sum up this issue and would you guys viewpoint it is. They obviously concerned but that's our secure in safety for everyone our customers. All the employees and every under the order and its get out there for black people keep people say that all work. On top select is that line to draw and I'm way over steps that. Becoming about well it it starts topic of the Al. And so you know this is proposed ordinance. It was a total. Words in it about the camera it's on the a and ended it with them so Toledo board eked out there and obviously be skeptical. It. Absolutely let me I do know that you guys have been very supportive of all of the measures relative to Homeland Security especially with the new challenges that law enforcement faces with lone wolf. Activities that we see throughout the country where there is places. You know that. Laura Lotta people and alcohol and everything else and I know you guys have been a good partner at a law enforcement over the years. Yeah obviously that contract to the port at their. Camp about. They're using that as we speak. For the quarter it's definitely the opposite that but obviously if you went out and you know we eat we want to do it and we we opening. We can continue to be that we Denver and along on that date problem the big threat there. Alex thanks so much for joining us we really appreciate your insight in into the issue and look forward to talking to you is more about these issues as they reveal themselves thanks so much. It. You know what the other issues that has come up in and I was reading in in one of the articles accomplish struck me is in incredibly. Councilman Jason Williams said that the current political climate raise concerns about how surveillance could be used by federal authorities. I think we need to step back and look at unintended implications of this endeavor that would not part of the first conversations that were. Before Donald Trump became president. And Williams said there have been little evidence to show cameras reduce crime I still sense of those early conversations have not seen any data that show. These extreme measures. Would make the public any safety any safer. We obviously hadn't been looking at the videos that have been presented on the news. And the arrest that the NO PD has made as a result thereof when people have identified. The perpetrators slash knuckle heads who have taken advantage of the traveling public tourist. And the residents of the French Quarter day in and day out. Oh oops we missed that do you make people safe maybe by not averting the instinct crime. But preventing. The next crawl by selective glee incapacitating. The impact criminal. That's taken advantage of folks that we lured to the French Quarter due Drake and have a good time. Then spend their money. Maybe we need to think out of the box a little bit more as opposed to politicize in this issue and dragging Donald Trump into it. Give me a break we'll be right back after the break this annual Norman on Debbie Debbie L. Rebecca and little on one real quick Jason bell chase was going on Jay's shall have a minute. That your against that because of what can be used for what that but face recognition that they can be completely true in bill he. Well I think any amount of technology is subject to a abuse I agree that the devil's in the details in the policies that need to be. There in order to protect. Against abuse. Is it sure is a concern I get that image should be. Addressed the bin against the cameras that it confuses me. If you've been to South Beach Times Square Centennial Park San Diego gas light district about Disneyland Disney World. You're not going on any inch of property there without being on a camera will be right back after the break this new alarm went on Doug Dario.
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